jeepflexin
Forum Replies Created
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Which scanners and/or scanner software do you have at your shop?
DRB2
DRB3
IDS
Genisys
HDS
MDI
NGS
Star Mobile
Tech1
Tech2
Techstream Lite
VCDS
Verus
WiTech
Other: _EScan, handful of OBD2 scanners and code readers.__________ -
First, let’s eliminate the backyard, underground, illegal hack shops.
Next let’s allow only competent technicians to work on cars.
Then we can get all legitimate shops to regularly write sizable checks to the state.
We can make car repair more costly for the consumer.
Plus, we can significantly increase paperwork and crossing “t’s” and dotting “i’s” in the daily life of shop owners.
Now,
all we have to do is get government on board and, when all is said and
done, depend solely on government to make this all come true. After all,
government regulations have been the savior of a whole host of
industries. There’s…well…I’ll get back to this later.History is
one of the best indicators of how things are likely to go, so let’s look
at how the state with arguably the strictest licensing has fared.
Michigan has collected well over $100M in fees from the auto service
industry since their licensing law was implemented.Hey Tom, first I would like to point out that in Delaware we are not an industry but instead we are a trade, industry typically is associated with standards and we have none. I am fine with you calling Michigan’s an industry because you at least have standards. I find it interesting that you believe or at minimum would imply that because Michigan hasn’t gotten licensing perfect you feel no other state is capable of making it work.
Several of
the goals above have been achieved. Increased paperwork, increased
repair costs and over $20,000 in licensing fees for a typical shop.
$20,000. Seriously.Seriously I’d like to see your math. Are you talking over 40 years? If that is the case make sure you mention how many millions you made during that time period too, it is quite easy to skew numbers to get the results you want if you don;t scale like for like.
Tech competency may be slightly better.
Here in Delaware that is the crux of the issue.
Backyard,
underground, illegal hack shops? Many would say there are more now than
ever. Going after such shops seems to be the number one selling point
for licensing proponents, yet it simply will not happen. Cars have been
repaired in backyards for over 100 years and will be for the next 100
years. Those who do so are determined and will always find plenty of
ways to stay clear of any regulations.
I do not disagree or have any illusions that the hack shops will find ways; however they will have to find a way that is harder less prominent for them. Minimum standards is about separation. Here in Delaware a customer has absolutely zero way to measure a shop’s capability versus the guy down the street. At minimum having shops who have achieved a state wide minimum standard give the consumer a chance the shop they are working with has a chance at fixing their car.What proponents do not comprehend
(or choose to ignore) is that the idea of state regulators combing the
countryside for people working on cars in backyards is simply a myth.And truly I don’t think the regulators need to root out every single illegal shop, ultimately the responsibility for rooting out these shops will fall on other shops who encounter jobs that were hacked up by a shop with un-qualified techs. I for one would happily turn over info regarding shops whose hackery showed up in my shop.
It
does not occur in Michigan and it won’t occur in any other state. What
the regulators will do is go after the low hanging fruit – the shop who
registered and got their license. Easy targets for checking paperwork,
signage, and a host of other details.Two things to understand. One what we are proposing is technical minimum standards, the shop’s responsibility of this is to employ those who have met the minimum standard. The only paperwork verification would be to verify certified techs were employees, current garagekeepers/ liability insurance and tax ID stuff. The shop owner would be free to conduct business in accordance to current applicable laws.
Two: Our current proposal has a component that creates a peer review board, the peer review component would have final say regarding the outcome and judgment of investigated wrong doing.
Backyard shops take far too much
effort to pursue. Anyone who tells you different is dreaming. Ask them
for examples of successful efforts anywhere. There are none. If there
were you would be hearing about it regularly.Again just because Michigan struggles to get it right does not mean it is impossible, once upon a time it was “not possible” to sail around the world. As you probably know the reason for that was no one had successfully achieved it until someone did. Even then there were plenty of naysayers who felt investing money into sailing “to the edge of the earth” was absurd. I think you would agree that turned out well.
Question: Would the
auto service industry in Michigan be better off today if ASA Michigan
(or AASP or ASC, etc.) had controlled the spending of that $100,000,000
(or even 10% of that) instead of the state?Considering many other states are working on a solution that includes regulation I can only imagine that if Michigan were not regulated they would also be dealing with the same issues the rest of us are.I am truly jealous, all you have to do is tweak a system that is already in place.
Imagine the training,
consumer information campaigns and other assistance that could have been
provided to Michigan shops with funding like that.The answers
to the problems this industry has can be found in many places. First, at
your shop. Then there are other shop owners, trade associations, ASE
and educational efforts.
Voluntary regulation has not worked, for a host of reasons but most predominant is that the hack shops are unaffected by any voluntary standard those of us in trade organizations abide by. They will be affected, especially if they are doing crap work, if there were a real minimum standard of which to measure them.Yet so many in our industry seem to want to
look to government for the solutions. Why on earth would anyone
associated with a trade association want shops to have the added expense
of licensing? Is it because the trade associations are rolling in so
much excess cash that they believe shops would be better off spending
that dues money for a state license?Simple Tom, nothing else has worked, not even put a dent in things. Competent techs are being forced out of the trade because more and more incompetent ones are flowing in. Guys like me are looking at the long term of auto repair and the writing is clear, if things continue as is the trade will not be worth being in. So faced with leaving the trade or improving our trade by installing minimum technical standards I will happily invest some of my hard earned cash each year towards minimum standards.
Are we as shop owners so
inept that we cannot deal with Backyard Bob down the street by informing
our customers what they get with us and what they get with him? Sure
there will be some people who do not get it – these are the ones that
you do not want as customers anyway! BB is doing you a favor by taking
them.
Not hardly, we on an almost weekly basis are getting new customers (good customers) who did not know that competent shops even exist. Lets face it the BYB is claiming to be just as competent as you and I so just saying you are better doesn’t cut it. I strongly disagree that the BYB is doing us any favor, they may serve a function for true bottom feeders but like any cancer they spread their philosophy and poison the thought process of good people, once who just want their car fixed.Are we so helpless that we need government to determine if a
tech is good enough to work on a car in our shop? We just can’t tell
without a government license?Look up the most successful shop
owners in your state. See how much time they spend complaining about
unfair competitors and hoping for government to make it all fair for
everyone. They spend none. Instead they put their efforts towards making
their business and industry a raging success.That simply is not true, the top shop owners I know dream of a trade where there was a minimum standard to set us each apart.
Which industries have been significantly elevated via government regulation? No, I can’t think of any, either.
Ha let me help you. How about lawyers and doctors? Both of those groups are heavily regulated pretty successfully. One thing they share is the peer review component.
Regulation
primarily does two things for our industry currently. Decreases profits
(or costs consumers money depending on how you view it) and starves
positive private and association efforts for funding.
So I will level with you and say I don’t know what you have to pay a year in Michigan but what is being kicked around here in DE is a few hundred bucks a year for a shop and less than $100 a year for a tech. That is small potatoes for anyone I know, especially if it works in making life harder for the hack shops.Can you find a few
benefits here and there with some regulations? Sure – that’s true with
just about anything. But they are vastly outweighed by the cost and
negatives.I see it the other way around, the negatives of government intrusion are outweighed by the potential to improve the minimum standards in the trade.
How about we spend our time working on elevating our
shops and our industry without government help. If we are going to get
involved with government, then let’s start figuring out which
regulations we can get rid of. That’s a government project that I can
get behind.As a trade we have been trying to elevate ourselves in the consumers eye for years and have produced dismal results. Unfortunately I do not see a solution that does not include an enforceable standard, the only way to achieve an enforceable standard is with government help.
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We flash at OEM level the makes we work on, this is a fundamental principal to being service ready.
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Administrator wrote:
> What kind of management software do you use? ____________________________________
Alldata Manage
>
> Does your management software have the ability/option to display jobs like this on the final RO/invoice:
>
> Fuel system labor
> Fuel pump
> Fuel filter
> Lock ring
> Seal
> Total………………………………………………….$XXX
>
> Front brake labor
> Brake pads
> Brake rotors (2)
> Brake fluid
> Brake hardware kit
> Total…………………………………………………..$XXX
>
> Oil filter
> Oil quarts (5)
> Oil and filter change and inspect
> Total…………………………….………………………$XX
>
> Total parts……………………………………………..$XXX
> Total labor…………………………………………….$XXX
> Tax………………………………………………………$XX
> Grand total…………………………………………..$XXXX
>
> In other words, no individual parts prices or labor prices display, instead only job totals.
>
> _____ Yes
> _____ No
> ____ Sort of – please explain: ________________________________________
Yes Alldata Manage displays exactly like the above.
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Dan Goninen wrote:
> how does everyone deal with tech comebacks?,we eat them ,but how do you make the techs acountable?
Though not enjoyable, it is ethical for the business to eat the comebacks. It is not ethical to make the employees subsidize the shop operations. If the only way a tech can be profitable is by having him pay for comebacks you should fire that tech.
As far as making the tech accountable, make sure he understands that a pattern of stupid comebacks is rewarded with a pink slip.
